Atkins rumors

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Jun
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Atkins rumors

Post by Jun » 2004-02-11 9:45


CAVA
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Post by CAVA » 2004-02-11 9:57

Me too! 8) 低CARB好象还有道理,高FAT则怎么听怎么违反常识。

Knowing
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Post by Knowing » 2004-02-11 10:01

I am not sure about the obesity part -- Atkins might have stopped the diet himself after he realized how bad it was for his heart thus gained weight again. :?

karen
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Post by karen » 2004-02-11 12:29

Atkins diet已经过时了, 现在不是时髦啥south beach diet吗, 既要少吃simple carbs肉也不能随便吃了. 其实我觉得zone diet比较好, 40-40-20, or 40-30-30. 不过Atkins也没有全错, 毕竟是他指出pasta 面包这些东西吃多了也不好.

豪情
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Post by 豪情 » 2004-02-11 14:33

哈哈, 我看到了就想到JUN早就猜到了.
KNOWING的分析有道理.

Jun
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Post by Jun » 2004-02-11 14:36

Hmm... If I were him, I'd have given up the diet long ago because of the inevitable constipation from eating no fruits, little vegetables, and no grains. Who in the world even adheres to this diet? Oops, wait, my own sister and her husband do!
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Elysees
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Post by Elysees » 2004-02-11 17:28

我看好多地方,都专门有Atkins的食谱呢,什么Friday, Subway阿,都专门推出Atkins Diet系列,这下他们惨了。。。
我自横刀向天笑,笑完我就去睡觉。

karen
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Post by karen » 2004-02-11 19:52

Well, I read two articles on this topic and honestly, I don't know. :roll: The way his medical report got out was underhanded, and no one knows for sure how much he really weighted.

The Journal paper http://online.wsj.com/article_print/0,, ... 68,00.html first reported:
The document, a report of external examination from the chief medical examiner's office in New York, also says that at his death Dr. Atkins weighed 258 pounds. .Dr. Atkins died in April last year at age 72 of a head injury from a fall on ice while walking to work. The report attributes the death to a "blunt impact injury of head." The report was sent to The Wall Street Journal by the Physicians Committee for Responsible Medicine, a group that advocates a vegetarian diet and has long been critical of the Atkins approach.


Atkins Widow said:
http://online.wsj.com/article_print/0,, ... 07,00.html
According to his widow, Atkins developed a condition called cardiomyopathy about three years before his death. The cardiomyopathy, Veronica Atkins said, was caused by a viral infection, and not his diet. Before developing the condition, Atkins' "coronary arteries showed only minimal and clinically insignificant signs of coronary artery disease, consistent with what would be expected in a 69-year old man. Cardiomyopathy is a serious and progressive condition and was, I have been told, in Robert's case, caused by a viral infection. Though this condition significantly weakened his heart, its cause was clearly related to an infection and not his diet," his widow's statement said.


Times reported today both sides of the story as well:
http://www.nytimes.com/2004/02/11/nyreg ... tkins.html
Responses to the report's release came quickly from Atkins quarters. Dr. Stuart Trager, chairman of the Atkins Physicians Council, a group of physicians who work as consultants to the Atkins organization, said the Journal article "was based on incomplete personal medical records that were illegally delivered to the newspaper in violation of federal law."

He said Dr. Atkins did not have a history of heart attack, nor was he obese. He said that Dr. Atkins weighed 195 pounds the day after he entered the hospital following his fall, and that he gained 63 pounds from fluid retention during the nine days he was in a coma before he died. Dr. Trager said Dr. Atkins did have cardiomyopathy, a heart muscle disease that was probably caused by a virus, not by what he ate. While Dr. Atkins had an episode of cardiac arrest the year before his death, Dr. Trager said, he was unaware that he had had any history of heart attack.
The other side said:
Dr. John McDougall, a member of the Physicians Committee and an internist who had debated Dr. Atkins, said there was no doubt that Dr. Atkins had lost weight after his cardiac arrest, but before that was a different story. "I knew the man," he said. "He was grossly overweight. I thought he was 40 to 60 pounds overweight when I saw him, and I'm being kind."
As for the buildup of fluids in his final days, he said, "I never heard of anyone gaining 60 pounds of fluid in nine days." He said he suspected that Dr. Atkins was unable to follow his own diet. Dr. McDougall agreed that the diet produced weight loss, but said he considered it extremely unhealthy and hard to follow.

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silkworm
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Post by silkworm » 2004-02-19 16:55

连TIME上都登了这个消息.
HIGH FAT这部分确实要命,不过就象KAREN说的,ATKINS推广了CARB吃多了没好处,在我这里就"取其精华"地领会了.
要说ATKINS老头儿也真够冤的,一个人孤军奋战,从70年代宣传LOW FAT+HIGH CARB不好,受尽了嘲笑.好容易他的理论有人接受了,他倒死了.SOUTH BEACH什么的,搭了他的车,风头好得很.

Jun
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Post by Jun » 2004-02-20 7:33

无碳水化合物的理论也不是Dr. Atkins发明的,十九世纪就有人这么讲了,不过那时候还没有那么多胖子,也不可能这么红就是了。Atkins diet 之所以流行,主要是因为它见效快,头两个礼拜能掉十几二十磅,而急于求成正是迎合普遍人的心理。

只要没有基因缺陷,普通人照老方子过日子肯定没事--什么都吃一点,多运动一点,就得了。问题是现在大家坐办公室的多,越来越懒,吃饭习惯却一点没变,加上物质丰富,饭馆快餐都拼命加油加糖(好吃啊),大家吃东西没有节制。

现在科学界基本上知道人之所以会得肥胖症,一个是热量摄取大于支出,一个是饱足感的feedback mechanism先天有缺陷。
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tiffany
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Post by tiffany » 2004-02-20 9:56

说到这个先天缺陷,我听说过有作畜牧的人,把鸭子脑子里管这个通路的主要核团给咔嚓了,结果么,鸭子就使劲儿的吃,但是长肉的效果不那么卓著。
嗯,我没有仔细看这个报道,但是长存心中的一个问题就是脑子是烧糖的,当然也可以烧酮。不过我怎么记得年大学的时候说起过酮体症这个事儿?
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silkworm
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Post by silkworm » 2004-02-20 12:35

是,一点CARB不进,脑子只好用酮体KETONES.
所以ATKINS DIETER开始完全戒除CARB的阶段,就和糖尿病病人一样有酮症症状,比如呼吸带有烂苹果味道---有些酮体可从肺里排除. :speechless002:

山茶
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Post by 山茶 » 2004-02-20 19:26

现在NBC在播评论Atkin diet。觉得少吃或不吃碳水化合物没什么不对,我的个人习惯就这样。但是光diet不锻炼永远是不健康的,而且没法保持。

洛洛
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Post by 洛洛 » 2004-02-21 11:45

我老爸就是:晚餐啤酒+菜,从来不吃米饭,几十年如一日,他大概是atkin地球另一边的匿名partner
混坛上另一颗新星
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silkworm
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Post by silkworm » 2004-02-21 12:31

洛洛 wrote:我老爸就是:晚餐啤酒+菜,从来不吃米饭,几十年如一日,他大概是atkin地球另一边的匿名partner
:lol: 啤酒是液体面包!

Jun
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Post by Jun » 2004-02-23 7:34

碳水化合物不仅是米饭面条面包这类明显的食物,还包括任何含糖的东西,许多蔬菜都含大量碳水化合物,特别是土豆和地瓜,水果就更别提了。酒类里自然也含碳水化合物,尤其是葡萄酒,糖份多了去了。中国人里能坚持Atkins的食谱的,我真不信能有几个。
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karen
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Post by karen » 2004-02-23 12:32

蔬菜水果虽大部分是碳水化合物,但属于complex carbs, 消化过程和面包土豆那种simple carbs又不同. 我记得差过啥表, 一份菠菜只含3g的carbs, 相对一份面条含20g.
我有问题, 葡萄酒/啤酒的消化过程是比较象糖呢还是象carbs? :roll:

Knowing
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Post by Knowing » 2004-02-23 12:40

我在看south beach diet , 也不完全是low carb , 主要是good carb and bad carb , good fat and bad fat , 尽量有控制的选择好的carb and fat , 然后有很多替换的法子来降低坏碳水化合物。sounds make sense.
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karen
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Post by karen » 2004-02-23 12:54

哪种花样都得多喝水. 我发现要不是刻意督促自己喝水, 冬天时是喝不到8杯的.
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Jun
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Post by Jun » 2004-02-23 14:29

A number of different issues:

1. Glycemic index. Complex carbohydrates are slowly broken down into simple glucose in blood, thus are less likely to cause pronounced spike in insulin, which is often blamed by EVERYONE for causing fat storage. Glycemic index is an indicator of how quickly a food item causes insulin surge.

2. To lose weight, the fundamental issue is still calories in vs. calories out. One can eat all red meat and still gain weight if more calories are taken in than expended. It's really that simple. However, if one is concerned more about nutrition than weight loss, then what one should eat gets more complicated. Again, balance and diversity are the only proven approach that is good for humans.

3. National Acadamy of Science recently released a report indicating that there is no hard science to support the recommendation of drinking 8 cups of water. They found that the average American take in enough water if they just drink whenever they feel thirsty. However, they also found that the average American intake is way too high in sodium and too low in potassium. People are recommended to drink water when they are on diet because they lose mostly water in the inital phase, regardless of the type of diet.

4. I have a knee-jerk aversion to the word "diet" because I don't believe any temporary lifestyle modification is useful and good. My brother in law has been off and on diets for most of his life, and he has never been able to fully gain control of his weight. I think it's terrible. Anyone who thinks he can go on a diet for six months and be fit for the rest of his life is deluding himself. It requires a life-long modification of habits.

silkworm
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Post by silkworm » 2004-02-24 12:21

Jun wrote:A number of different issues:

1. Glycemic index. Complex carbohydrates are slowly broken down into simple glucose in blood, thus are less likely to cause pronounced spike in insulin, which is often blamed by EVERYONE for causing fat storage. Glycemic index is an indicator of how quickly a food item causes insulin surge.
简单CARB吃进去,迅速分解成GLUCOSE.血糖一高,INSULIN马上猛增.身体收到储存的信号,点滴不漏全部存起来.而饿时要调用存起来的脂肪就不那么容易了.所以吃简单CARB,俗话就是"不顶饱".

我觉得现在提出这个Glycemic Index的概念是亡羊补牢.以前光顾着看卡路里了.上周五NBC的节目里,有个人举了个例子:美国人OBESITY的发展和推崇LOW FAT食物的时段是吻合的.如果确实,倒很有意思.

ravaged
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Post by ravaged » 2004-02-24 13:38

美国人OBESITY的发展和推崇LOW FAT食物的时段是吻合的
well, that may be a totally spurious correlation. it could just be that the onset of obesity as a trend spawned the low-fat fad, not the other way around. just sayin'. :wink:
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silkworm
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Post by silkworm » 2004-02-24 13:50

是,"营养学家"把这些数字今天这么摆,明天那么摆,我们普通人都不知怎么办好了. :shock:

vp2002
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Post by vp2002 » 2004-02-24 15:11

美国人OBESITY的发展和推崇LOW FAT食物的时段是吻合的
这里有correlational 和 causal 的不同吧.

karen
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Post by karen » 2004-02-24 16:18

ravaged wrote:
美国人OBESITY的发展和推崇LOW FAT食物的时段是吻合的
well, that may be a totally spurious correlation. it could just be that the onset of obesity as a trend spawned the low-fat fad, not the other way around. just sayin'. :wink:
我觉得obesity其实是和美国农业产品太廉价了有粉大关系.

Jun
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Post by Jun » 2004-02-25 7:51

I can count the reasons for obesity with my eyes closed:

1. Abundance of foods, especially processed foods and advertisements pushing for increased consumption. And one reason why American food is cheap is the government subsidy of agriculture. Free trade and market economy my foot.

2. Dramatic reduction in physical labor. Most everyone is working indoors 8 hours a day.

3. Lack of public transportation and wide use of personal cars for transportation. Television and computers certainly do not help. A severely sedentary lifestyle.

All the fad diets became fad, because it is difficult, given the social circumstances and our instinct, to reduce caloric intake and increase physical activity. I don't think anyone would give up an office job for construction, or walk to the grocery store instead of driving.

CAVA
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Post by CAVA » 2004-02-25 8:25

Jun说得好,我大力鼓掌。 :party002:

猫咪头
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Post by 猫咪头 » 2004-02-25 10:01

Local high school girls seem to fit in 2 groups, lean mean and fudge-puggy, with very few "average' ones.

A (too)strict standard on fit and beauty may drive fat people into obesity.
:?:
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Jun
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Post by Jun » 2004-02-25 10:51

I agree. Eating and body shapes are no long about health and fitness any more in this mad mad world. Yet the more psychological baggage is associated with losing weight, the more people are incapable of making rational decision about eating. There is too much psychological eating and binging in the mix that only complicate the issues and make healthy lifestyle more difficult.
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karen
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Post by karen » 2004-02-26 9:43

I think psychologically eating has a lot to do with control. The world is going mad around you, the only thing you have control of is what you put into your mouth.
Oh my, that's sooo Oprah. :-D
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